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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 8 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1463<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re:  Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
RE: South Park's Cartman as a Imperial Noble<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Re: electronic warfare<BR>
Re: (Almost) Tidally Locked Worlds<BR>
re:  Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Primitive Communications Media<BR>
RE: South Park's Cartman as a Imperial Noble<BR>
RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: (Almost) Tidally Locked Worlds<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
Service cute names<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1461)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:58:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
<BR>
At the moment, I have just a couple of comments on your intriguing and<BR>
thoughtful post.<BR>
 <BR>
> Recently, I have been introduced to (and I have devoured) Neil Postman's<BR>
> excellent "Amusing Ourselves to Death", which is an excellent book that<BR>
<BR>
What a great title.  It's even better than Four Arguments for the<BR>
Elimination of Television (by Gerry Mander (his real name), written in<BR>
the early 1970s).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> To continue with the law theme, print redefines law yet again: With the<BR>
> ability to disseminate cases and decisions across a wide area, there's a strong<BR>
> shift toward precedent in law (Glenn: is precedent the right concept, or am<BR>
> I missing the mark here?)<BR>
<BR>
You are missing the mark.  Precedent was widely used in European systems<BR>
before the development of the printing press.  (Even your hypothetical<BR>
of the tribal leader reviewing his internal library suggests that he may<BR>
have been thinking in part, "how did our ancestors handle this?")  The<BR>
court -- often a panel of noble judges -- would consider the situation<BR>
presented and confer among themselves about what the result had been in<BR>
similar cases in the past.  That is the essence of precedent.  It is a<BR>
concept intimately connected (historically, although not logically) to<BR>
the idea of judges making and developing the law.  <BR>
<BR>
By the late 1700s, only Britain retained the concept of judge-made,<BR>
precedent-based law. I suspect that the rise of absolutist monarchies on<BR>
the continent (the result of continental monarchies' victories in the<BR>
struggle with the nobles that the nobles and merchants won in the<BR>
English Civil War) has more to do with the decline in the power of<BR>
judges and the use of precedent than changes in technology.  Napoleon<BR>
instituted his Code Napoleon about 1800, and it has served as a model<BR>
for the civil law system in Europe (where he imposed it on whomever<BR>
France conquered) and much of the rest of the world to this day.  <BR>
<BR>
The civil law system is typified by writing the rules in as much detail<BR>
as possible in a legal code, which rules are then applied to each<BR>
situation presented to the court, without regard to what other courts<BR>
have done in similar situations.  That really depends on an efficient<BR>
publication system to get copies of the code to all of the judges and<BR>
lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
In the last 200 years, common law countries have been developing civil<BR>
codes, but keeping their reliance on judicial precedent to interpret<BR>
those codes.  The trend is definitely away from use of precedent,<BR>
however.  For example, administrative courts (like those of the SEC or<BR>
many state labor departments) don't rely on precedent set by other<BR>
administrative law judges.  <BR>
<BR>
Today, much of the law in the United States at least is being put on the<BR>
internet. That is an important change, because it makes the text of the<BR>
law (both code and precedent) accessible to many more people than ever<BR>
before.  (Reason that is more accessible include the relative ease of<BR>
computer searching over index or key word research, and the physical<BR>
proximity of one's computer versus the law library.)  <BR>
<BR>
> Postman goes through three more stages, telegraphy, photography and radio<BR>
> (at least to some degree) before arriving at television. It goes without<BR>
> saying that television has redefined politics, education, religion, music,<BR>
> everything. That's what a shift in epistomology does. Law, at least to some<BR>
> degree, changes again. Postman, writing in 1984, didn't have the benefit of<BR>
> hindsight with regard to Rodney King, O.J. Simpson and Bill Clinton.<BR>
> However, I don't think he was surprised by the way that they were handled.<BR>
> In the opinion of many, at least in those cases, the concept of law has<BR>
> been redefined yet again toward emotivist public opinion.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think that the concept of law -- at least as actually practiced,<BR>
as opposed to perceived -- has changed significantly as a result of any<BR>
of these technologies.  None of them are well suited to reasoned<BR>
discourse, and that is still the essence of the modern practice of law. <BR>
Sensational cases have always been with us, but they have only<BR>
tangential effects on the practice or development of the law.  Those<BR>
tangential effects are limited to legislative response to public<BR>
perception.  None of the cases you mentioned has had any effect on the<BR>
law itself.  <BR>
<BR>
> What does public discourse in the Traveller universe look like? What is the<BR>
> dominant medium? What changes might appear as a result? Is this general<BR>
> decline in the political arena one of the reasons for the fall of the<BR>
> Second Imperium, and for the rise of the nobility in the Third Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
This is really interesting problem, because, as you note,<BR>
<BR>
> The Xboat system, in a sense, is a "new medium". It's kind of like a strange <BR>
> mixture between the telegraph and "a slow boat to China". <BR>
<BR>
In the Far Future -- which is the present day as far as the Ziru Sirka<BR>
is concerned (I think Vilani scouts got our recent Mars probes) --<BR>
communication within a star system is essentially instantaneous for huge<BR>
volumes of information.  On the other hand, communication within an<BR>
interstellar polity takes weeks.  How does this affect public<BR>
discourse?  I'm not sure, and I have to go back to work.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
P.S.  You wrote:<BR>
> Perhaps the Imperium is the direct descendant of an organization along <BR>
> the lines of the WTO ( or maybe the um... ITO: Intergalactic Trade <BR>
> Organization?).<BR>
<BR>
"Intragalactic" maybe, but more likely "interstellar".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:11:32 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: South Park's Cartman as a Imperial Noble<BR>
<BR>
Quotes from Lucan (as played by Eric Cartman):<BR>
<BR>
Upon hearing he's become Emperor ...<BR>
"Sweet!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon meeting a representative of the Moot ...<BR>
"Screw you guys!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon meeting the Vargr ambassador to the Imperial Court ...<BR>
"You're all a bunch of butt-lickers!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon meeting the Aslan ambassador to the Imperial Court ...<BR>
"No, kitty!  You're a bad kitty!  This is my pot pie!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon meeting the K'kree ambassador to the Imperial Court ...<BR>
"That's a bunch of tree-hugging hippies!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon meeting the Hiver ambassador to the Imperial Court ...<BR>
"This is pretty f***ed up right here."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Upon hearing Dulinor had fled ...<BR>
"Respect my authori-ty!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
First public address ...<BR>
"Follow your dreams.  You can reach your goals, I'm living proof.<BR>
Beefcake!  BEEFCAKE!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:26:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
>That makes a lot of sense actually...amazing what one can learn through <BR>
>sarcasm and attempts at lame humour.   *grin*<BR>
<BR>
Listen, bucko.. when it comes to lame humor, this town ain't big enough for<BR>
the two of us!<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/silitrav.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
There was once a time when the church controlled the government.<BR>
The laws of the church were the laws of the land. Belief in God <BR>
was strong, teachings of the church were rarely questioned.<BR>
This time was called The Dark Ages.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:29:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 08:37 AM 12/8/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As an ex-Coastie:<BR>
><BR>
>Uncle Sam's Confused Group<BR>
><BR>
>(Are we military, are we police, are we customs?...)<BR>
<BR>
Saw a piece on Discovery about SAR ops off the Columbia Bar.<BR>
<BR>
Not On Your Life would I get in those boats.  I have the utmost respect for<BR>
those who do.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed,December 08 1999 : 19 36 13<BR>
From: isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
Subject: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
How do people handle salvage rights?  For that matter, how do they work in the real world?<BR>
<BR>
For example, our heroes come across a damaged, but basically intact ship adrift in the outer reaches of a remote system.  After checking<BR>
the ship for survivors they find it deserted.  Once they manage to get the power plant online, drives working and get the ship refuelled they<BR>
decide to leave a skeleton crew aboard, get her to civilisation and claim salvage rights. HOWEVER on further examination they discover this<BR>
multi-million credit Free Trader was financed with 30 years left to pay off.<BR>
<BR>
The owner/operators are dead so does the ship belong to the bank? Is it like a mortgage where an insurance policy pays off the balance<BR>
of the finance leaving the ship to be inherited by the owners\' next of kin?  Or does it belong to the salvaging PCs?<BR>
<BR>
I\'m guessing it\'s either insured and paid off, leaving the PCs with a legal claim to the ship which can be contested under Imperial<BR>
law by the next of kin, or title reverts to the bank, but they pay the salvagers a percentage of the market value of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
How does it work in the real world, any legal eagles specialising in International Maritime Law on the list?  For that matter is this<BR>
covered by canon?<BR>
<BR>
Just curious to find out before I run the scenario, because my guys WILL ask to keep it....<BR>
<BR>
...until they find the guy just hanging on in emergency low berth with scant hours of battery power keeping him alive...*evil grin*<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
		<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed,December 08 1999 : 19 36 13<BR>
From: isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
Subject: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
How do people handle salvage rights?  For that matter, how do they work in the real world?<BR>
<BR>
For example, our heroes come across a damaged, but basically intact ship adrift in the outer reaches of a remote system.  After checking<BR>
the ship for survivors they find it deserted.  Once they manage to get the power plant online, drives working and get the ship refuelled they<BR>
decide to leave a skeleton crew aboard, get her to civilisation and claim salvage rights. HOWEVER on further examination they discover this<BR>
multi-million credit Free Trader was financed with 30 years left to pay off.<BR>
<BR>
The owner/operators are dead so does the ship belong to the bank? Is it like a mortgage where an insurance policy pays off the balance<BR>
of the finance leaving the ship to be inherited by the owners\' next of kin?  Or does it belong to the salvaging PCs?<BR>
<BR>
I\'m guessing it\'s either insured and paid off, leaving the PCs with a legal claim to the ship which can be contested under Imperial<BR>
law by the next of kin, or title reverts to the bank, but they pay the salvagers a percentage of the market value of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
How does it work in the real world, any legal eagles specialising in International Maritime Law on the list?  For that matter is this<BR>
covered by canon?<BR>
<BR>
Just curious to find out before I run the scenario, because my guys WILL ask to keep it....<BR>
<BR>
...until they find the guy just hanging on in emergency low berth with scant hours of battery power keeping him alive...*evil grin*<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:30:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: electronic warfare<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 8:39, Rick Stump wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I agree. Scouts use radios too much, company commanders use radios too<BR>
> much, and forward observers might as well just call me on a phone and<BR>
> *tell* me where they are. 'Course, I *liked* it that way. In the Persian<BR>
> Gulf I was briefing the 6th Light Armor (French) and asked how long they<BR>
> thought they could speak on the radio before an enemy could fix their<BR>
> position. The concensus was 15 seconds. When I told them that in 15<BR>
> seconds the rounds would already be in the air, they thought I was<BR>
> kidding. During the war the tactical elements were pretty quiet, but their<BR>
> commanders and support were often on for 1+ minute at a time. And most<BR>
> armies aren't any better. Commanders get 'addicted' to information very<BR>
> quickly, especially in high-stress situations like combat. Generals 'need'<BR>
> to know what is happening in that critical battalion, company commanders<BR>
> 'must have' artillery support right now, etc. If you leave them alone for<BR>
> a time, they do what they are trained to do - trust the equipment. Then<BR>
> you kill them. <BR>
<BR>
As a straight Intell guy (transfered from being a grunt) I spend quite <BR>
a lot of time carrying one of those things at platoon or section level <BR>
(the NZ Army still uses PRC-77s at about 20lbs), and we used to avoid <BR>
talking as much as possible. We were generally quite successful as long <BR>
as we could talk the company OCs out of requiring full SitReps every <BR>
hour (and often on the hour). Sometimes I wonder about the mentality of <BR>
people who become officers. <BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: Imperial Intelligence probably has a whole lotta'<BR>
> electronic warfare stuff, ranging from deep space listening arrays to<BR>
> detect old radio signals from solar systems 3-4 light years away to 'tramp<BR>
> far traders' that actually have tons of electronics in their bay and an<BR>
> extendable antenna in their air raft berth.<BR>
<BR>
The old "Russian Trawler" trick, eh?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:51:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: (Almost) Tidally Locked Worlds<BR>
<BR>
> Well, based on the formula you just gave, 273*Kelvin* + 10*Celcius* =>283K<BR>
> * 0.15 = 42.45 Kelvin, or -230.55 Celcius. A tad chillier than yourfirst<BR>
> result... or have I missed something (I don't have WBH of GS...yet... to<BR>
> check)<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, I hadn't considered that the units might be Kelvin, but it seems odd<BR>
to mix units like that, no?  Anyway, I'll check tonite to see if that<BR>
works out.  Also, I'm pretty sure the formula I gave was the effect of<BR>
nighttime cooling.  So the 42.45 degrees is subtracted from the base temp,<BR>
giving an even warmer cold pole at around -30 C.<BR>
<BR>
<Leonard><BR>
The fact that there *has* to be atmospheric circulation (ie *weather*,<BR>
and some "climate") or else all the atmosphere will wind up in a big<BR>
stack at the middle of darkside, melting away on one side and building<BR>
up on the other as the planet slowly rotates.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, any such figures are going to be a *guess* since we don't<BR>
*have* a planet with anything *close* to those specs to work with.<BR>
</Leonard><BR>
<BR>
Yes, I know that.  But still, assuming that all other things are equal,<BR>
one would expect that the cold pole would be colder than earth's north<BR>
pole, no?  I mean consider if the earth became tidally locked, one would<BR>
expect the cold pole to be colder than the arctic/antarctic, right?  Of<BR>
course, this world is smaller, so convection might work more<BR>
efficiently...<BR>
<BR>
<Leonard><BR>
The north and south poles won't be much different in temp from anyplace<BR>
else along the teminator. But if you make the terminator unihabitable<BR>
what are they going to use for food? You can't grow anything on the<BR>
dark side.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it'd work if you made only the "hot pole" habitable.<BR>
</Leonard><BR>
<BR>
Ya, that's what I'm thinking.  Or maybe just a band between the hot pole<BR>
and the terminator.  The thing is that if the terminator is comfy, you<BR>
could just stay at the poles without having to worry about moving around<BR>
to stay in habitable areas.<BR>
<BR>
<Jason T. Barnabas><BR>
This world would have a circumferance of 12,637 to<BR>
17,692 km.  If the period were only 20 years, they would<BR>
only have to travel at an average of just over 2 km per<BR>
</JTB><BR>
<BR>
Ya, the point is not to make it difficult for them or anything.  Just to<BR>
make it an aspect of their society.  I'm thinking of things like "shoot,<BR>
Kyarlii's so old he's been around the world three times!" and past<BR>
generations leaving "standing stones" and so on for later generations to<BR>
find as they come around again.  It's also going to be a bit challenging<BR>
since continuous glacier formation will create new rivers and canyons<BR>
where your old routes were.<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:55:02 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: re:  Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 11:58, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You are missing the mark.  Precedent was widely used in European systems<BR>
> before the development of the printing press.  (Even your hypothetical of<BR>
> the tribal leader reviewing his internal library suggests that he may have<BR>
> been thinking in part, "how did our ancestors handle this?")  The court --<BR>
> often a panel of noble judges -- would consider the situation presented<BR>
> and confer among themselves about what the result had been in similar<BR>
> cases in the past.  That is the essence of precedent.  It is a concept<BR>
> intimately connected (historically, although not logically) to the idea of<BR>
> judges making and developing the law.  <BR>
<BR>
I've just been reading up on medieval villages, and their justice <BR>
system was based almost entirely on precedent. The jury would hear the <BR>
case and make a ruling based on custom (ie what happened last time this <BR>
came up), and make a ruling. If there was no precedent they would make <BR>
a ruling based on what seemed reasonable to them (often this was <BR>
confirmed in the records as being the will of the village as a whole), <BR>
and this would then become one of the customs of the manor. I would <BR>
suggest that precedent as a way of making law predates any other system.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed,December 08 1999 : 20 13 34<BR>
From: isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
Subject: Primitive Communications Media<BR>
<BR>
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This is probably old news to you guys, but sci-fi writer Bruce Sterling\'s pet project is a collection of \"dead\" communication<BR>
media. Check out the web page at :<BR>
<BR>
http://www1.islandnet.com/%7Eianc/dm/dm.html<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:16:52 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: South Park's Cartman as a Imperial Noble<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Quotes from Lucan (as played by Eric Cartman):<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
> "Beefcake!  BEEFCAKE!"<BR>
<BR>
Doug, can you confirm that Imperial Marines have stencils of Fleet Master<BR>
Sergeant Cartman, with this inspirational message immediately below, on<BR>
the breastplate & backplates of their battledress?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:14:54 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 05:58 PM 12/8/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Ships so close together that you could virtually walk across them, and this<BR>
>after the effects of bug plasma were known from the disaster of the first<BR>
>battle.<BR>
<BR>
That's because space is really small...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, we decided that all the captains had the "Glory Hound" <BR>
Disadvantage and thus all wanted to be in the camerashot....<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:18:26 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: (Almost) Tidally Locked Worlds<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:23:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
>Subject: (Almost) Tidally Locked Worlds<BR>
><BR>
>Hi all.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm working on a map/write-up for the world Velscur (1110 Egyrn/Trojan<BR>
>Reach, X374379-3 Ni 302 Na F9 VI) and I have some questions. I'm picturing<BR>
>the world as approaching tidal lock, with a rotation period of several<BR>
>decades.  This means the locals have to keep moving to remain in the<BR>
>habitable zone, but they can manage it even with their primitive tech.<BR>
>So...<BR>
><BR>
>1. How do I calculate temperatures on the surface of such a world?  I<BR>
>tried the formulae in "Grand Survey" for tidally locked worlds (same as in<BR>
>WBH, I believe) but they give me a "cold pole" temp of only -60 degrees<BR>
>Celcius or so, if I'm doing it right.  The formula says maximum cooling<BR>
>due to night-time is (Base+273)  *.15 for this world, giving me something<BR>
>like -50 (assuming a Base mean temp of around 10).  Add the latitude<BR>
>change of about -20 and I've got -70. If the planet's mean temp is 10 or<BR>
>so, I get only -60 for the pole that's spent 50 years in darkness.  What<BR>
>am I missing?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I get min temp of -32C (or -60C with latitude modifiers.) using Grand<BR>
Survey.<BR>
(Reduction of (10+273)*0.15 = 42C).  This formula is the reduction and not<BR>
the minimum temperature as someone suggested.  This situation is no use<BR>
anyway because the dayside temp is very hot so you would have problems<BR>
explaining the hydrographics.<BR>
<BR>
The relatively small drop is because of the atmosphere - For a vacuum world<BR>
the formula for temp. drop is (10+273)*0.80 which would give a minumim temp<BR>
of -216C which is probably what you were expecting.<BR>
<BR>
My suggestion is to have a base temperature of -194C.  This gives a max<BR>
dayside temp of 4C, increased to 16C with latitude modifiers.  This makes<BR>
both the nightside and twilight area completely uninhabitable.<BR>
<BR>
An alternative would be to have a world with a very long 'year' in an very<BR>
eccentric orbit (or possibly the effect of a binary star - Helliconia<BR>
anyone?).  The population would then have to migrate from the equator (in<BR>
winter) to the poles (in summer).  I would be a lot more confident with the<BR>
temperature calculations in this case than for a tidally locked world and<BR>
you can even have a normal day.<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:23:04 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 06:59 AM 12/8/99 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 12:21 AM 12/8/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >All I know is that our (Cornell University) paintball team routinely beats<BR>
> >out all the academies....  West Point typically comes in about 4th<BR>
> >nationally, the others are further behind...<BR>
><BR>
>The USMA at West Point doen't recruit football players.  It recruits future<BR>
>Army officers.<BR>
<BR>
Read it again.  Not football, Paintball.  You know, that game where you run <BR>
around the woods shooting each other with guns loaded with little paint <BR>
pellets?<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:32:42 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/8/99 5:01:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< All I know is that our (Cornell University) paintball team routinely beats <BR>
 out all the academies....  West Point typically comes in about 4th <BR>
 nationally, the others are further behind...<BR>
 <BR>
  >><BR>
 Paintball guns are not real, and they should be training for real, and for <BR>
crew-served weapons, even if they are going into supply or admin...<BR>
<BR>
That is why MILES [laser tag add ons for weapons which work with blanks] is <BR>
such a great system in the open lands, like at NTC, and stink so bad in the <BR>
woods, because in the woods troops and small unit leaders may wrongly "learn" <BR>
that a tree or bush is cover, not the correct classification of concealment, <BR>
where as at NTC they correctly learn a rock or small hill is both.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:38:08 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Service cute names<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/8/99 10:05:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< At 09:28 PM 12/7/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
 >Leave it to the marines, whose a***s ride in OUR equipment! And of<BR>
 >course, as a fellow ex-Sailor, I too know what NAVY stands for:<BR>
 ><BR>
 >Never<BR>
 >Again<BR>
 >Volunteer<BR>
 >Yourself!<BR>
 <BR>
 Uncle Sam Ain't Released Me Yet.<BR>
 - --  >><BR>
<BR>
'U' Signed the Motherf**king Contract<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:44:26 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Tangent Warning<BR>
<BR>
I wondered about that football thing...<BR>
<BR>
anyway, I really enjoyed paintball but isn't it something to be discouraged?<BR>
<BR>
Remember, you are pointing a gun at someone with intent to shoot.  That may<BR>
give untrained hacks the impression you can do that with any firearm.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 2:49 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 06:59 AM 12/8/99 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>>At 12:21 AM 12/8/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> >All I know is that our (Cornell University) paintball team routinely<BR>
beats<BR>
>> >out all the academies....  West Point typically comes in about 4th<BR>
>> >nationally, the others are further behind...<BR>
>><BR>
>>The USMA at West Point doen't recruit football players.  It recruits<BR>
future<BR>
>>Army officers.<BR>
><BR>
>Read it again.  Not football, Paintball.  You know, that game where you run<BR>
>around the woods shooting each other with guns loaded with little paint<BR>
>pellets?<BR>
><BR>
>           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
>                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
>                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
>#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
>                               -- Albert Einstein<BR>
>for PGP public-key and<BR>
>more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
>WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:43:00 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
<BR>
At 03:32 PM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>  Paintball guns are not real, and they should be training for real, and for<BR>
>crew-served weapons, even if they are going into supply or admin...<BR>
<BR>
This is certainly true, but still, you'd think they'd be better at <BR>
it...  Hmmm... Crew serviced paintball guns....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 12:39:53 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1461)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:03 AM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Recently, I have been introduced to (and I have devoured) Neil Postman's<BR>
> >excellent "Amusing Ourselves to Death", which is an excellent book that<BR>
> >deals with the effect of television on society.<BR>
><BR>
>Postman... I'm familiar with his work. A modern-day Luddite and<BR>
>technophobe. In one of his recent works (I don't remember which), he<BR>
>claimed that the rate of technological change was disorienting to<BR>
>people.<BR>
<BR>
Technopoly, by Neil Postman, starts with an explanation how literacy is the <BR>
downfall of memorization.  Makes you wonder how you are supposed to read <BR>
the book.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, I never saw Postman's work as a sign that we should stop being <BR>
literate and destroy our toasters, rather just an interesting read on the <BR>
markers and influences of our society.  He might be absolutely correct, <BR>
however I enjoy reading books and toasting bread.  Given the number of <BR>
writers that theorize everything under the sun, I am sure that someone has <BR>
written a counter argument to Postman, and a counter-counter argument to <BR>
that guy, and. . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 >course the economic counter-argument is extremely compelling! Maybe wargames<BR>
> >were victims of this epistemological shift, who knows. Actually, now that I<BR>
> >think about it, the rise of collectable trading card games and story and<BR>
> >picture-heavy RPGs makes a hell of a lot of sense.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't overestimate the collectible trading card game market. Back when<BR>
>Magic: The Gathering was at its peak, one CCG fan insisted that CCGs would<BR>
>displace RPGs the way RPGs displaced wargames. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.<BR>
<BR>
True, but CCGs have seriously displaced where the money of roleplayers is <BR>
going.  Wargames are still being played and created, but nothing like the <BR>
scale how like they were before RPGs.  There definitely has been a vast <BR>
shrinking of the roleplaying gaming "industry".  From the estimates I have <BR>
heard, the industry is one twentieth the size it was ten years <BR>
ago.  Personally, I am pointing my fingers at CRPGs, and not CCGs.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, that doesn't stop me from playing Alpha Centauri.  So it goes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >What does public discourse in the Traveller universe look like? What is the<BR>
> >dominant medium? What changes might appear as a result? Is this general<BR>
> >decline in the political arena one of the reasons for the fall of the Second<BR>
> >Imperium, and for the rise of the nobility in the Third Imperium?<BR>
><BR>
>The speed of communication will have an effect, no matter what the dominant<BR>
>medium is. I would suspect that there will be variations in the dominant<BR>
>media from place to place. Some high-tech cultures will be very much<BR>
>oriented to television, while other high-tech cultures will eschew TV<BR>
>entirely, getting their information from their version of the Internet.<BR>
<BR>
Technology will seriously effect how information is transmitted.  Since <BR>
there are a huge variety of tech levels in the Imperium, beyond Xboats, <BR>
styles of communication will definately be a local or subsector phenomenon.<BR>
<BR>
Planets V, W & X might have an immersive hologrid communications network <BR>
that operates with a small fleet of Xboat-like communication couriers, <BR>
Planet Y has telegraph and a postal service, while Planet Z has a system <BR>
wide Internet ran via Windows5000 (Gov code is 1, unless Win5K crashes, and <BR>
then it is a 0 until it reboots).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>(Speaking of which, since I got my cable modem 3 years ago, I tend to watch<BR>
>less TV...)<BR>
<BR>
Ditto.  More time for the TML. ;)<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1463<BR>
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